Only In Israel

Saturday, April 09, 2005

Response for ISMer

In the recent weeks, someone calling himself ISMer has been posting comments on this blog. I've responded in the comment thread, but ISMer continues posting on and on. His posts are filled with half-truths and outright lies, which I believe should not got unchallenged. I will address his claims here, in my blog, because I think the rebuttal for those lies needs to get as wide attention as I can possibly give it.
I'm responding to his last comment recently posted here.

The Wall is about land theft. It is both illegal and immoral. Our soldier/blogger is using violence against civilians in defense of land theft.

The Anti-Terrorist Barrier (only 3% of which is actually a wall) is about giving security to Israel's civilian population, a task in which it succeeded greatly. In areas where the fence has been completed, the number of terrorist attacks dropped drastically. The fence is legal, as it was approved by Israel's supreme court, areas of it which weren't approved or deemed illegal were changed to fit the court's ruling. The fence is moral. It's a defensive measure, and noone is harmed by it unless they try to harm it. The people whose land the fence is built on were compensated, farmers who have land on the other side of the fence have free access to agricultural gates which enable them to work their land and continue their life.
You tell me the fence gives Palestinian kids a hard time going to school? atleast they get there in one piece and don't get their schoolbus rocketed/bombed like Israeli kids do. Preferring Palestinian kids getting to school in time on the expense of Israeli kids being blown to pieces is sick, immoral and despicable.

The original path of the wall from 2003 in Budrus would have taken 20% of the village's land and encircled Budrus and seven other villages. The residents of Budrus feared their freedom of movement within the West Bank would be greatly constrained by the Wall path and their land taken. The 2003 Wall path in Budrus deviated a good deal from the Green Line, enough to have a very significant impact on the lives of the people of Budrus so that they chose to peacefully protests.

Because of their continual non-violent protests since late 2003, the people of Budrus succeeded in forcing the Israeli government to change the planned path of the wall and to move much of it to the Green Line. Now only 5% of the 20% of their land that was planned to be seized will be behind the Wall. This is a victory for non-violence and human rights, and the people of Budrus have every right to continue to protest.

Every single bit of this statement is untrue. The fences original and new path can be seen at Israel's MFA site. Here's a picture of the fence around Budrus (marked in green):

The blue line represents the 2003 fence path and the red line represents the 2005 fence path, the purple line is the 1967 border. As you can see, there were practically no changes made (500-700 meters one way or another) and the fence is on the greenline within miles around the village, and even where it isn't it doesn't move a great deal away from it. Hence the 20% and 5% figures are completely imaginary and made up. As for their village being disconnected along with 7 other villages, it's untrue. Even if the 2003 path was carried out there would STILL be gates and checkpoints which would allow the villagers to cross over to Ramallah.
The leadership of Budrus has explicitly and repeatedly accepted a Wall on the Green Line. This is their position and their choice.

If that's the case, how come the people of Budrus have destroyed 150 meters of fence which was positioned directly on the green line? Pictures can be found in this Nazimedia article.
Palestinians do not throw rocks as the marchers advance on the soldiers (unless perhaps there are occasionally a few young boys doing this without the knowledge of the community leadership, and out of their view). So the soldier's claim that "first comes a shower of rocks" is false.

Gee. I can't count atleast 4 different rock throwers right here. Oh yes I'm making it all up. There really aren't any rocks thrown at the IDF. It's all my imagination. And I bet these are "a few young boys". And will you just look how young this guy looks. Right. It's all my imagination.

Sometimes the soldiers immediately begin teargassing and shooting at the peaceful marchers as they approach. The marchers try to continue walking through and around through the soldiers, nonetheless. As marchers try to walk through and around soldiers, the soldiers try and block them (because at that point they cannot gas them as he said). Most often the soldiers begin pushing and beating the marchers.

Oh my. Soldiers using force to stop protestors from WALKING THROUGH THEM? Are you even listening to yourself? Well DUH we'll use force to stop protestors from reaching closed military zones and burning the bulldozers building the fence, what, did you think we'd throw flowers at people trying to trample soldiers just to get to military equipment and burn it? Did you honestly think we'd let you people just go through us? I mean Pancake Corrie was pretty stupid, no doubt about that, but to think an entire organization composed of stupid people still exists is astonishing.

I was once at a protest in the Salfit area where I saw two Palestinians punch Israeli soldiers and one kick a soldier (while the soldiers were doing the same). Journalists photos of Palestinians punching and kicking were all over the newspapers and internet the next day. If more Palestinians punched and kicked, we'd see photos as we did that day.

Oh? And I'm assuming the reports of wounded Policemen and Soldiers are all made up. I bet Palestinians hugged them too hard.

Protesters do not try to take soldiers weapons. This is an absolutely ridiculous claim. I've seen a soldier at Budrus put a gun right directly into Laila's face and video camera, in a manner that looks a bit like the posted photo. But the posted photo seems not to be from the same day, because the day I saw this Laila had her videocamera in her hands. I can imagine a soldier put his gun directly in Laila's face on the day of this photo.

Protestors have tried to take soldier's weapons and so did Laila in the photo I've posted. You ARE right, she did get a gun's back right in the face, as she should've. Someone trying to snatch a weapon deserves to get shot, not hit in the face. The photo speaks for itself, you see Laila trying to take the gun right there.
I have never heard 50% of the chants that the soldier mentions - that is I have never heard the uglier chants he notes. I wonder in what language are the ugly chants he is claiming to have heard - English, Hebrew or Arabic ?

Ofcourse. I have nothing better to do with my time home than to sit around with myself and make up jewhating slogans to post on my blog. Is that your claim? Do you expect people to take it seriously?
The soldier's claim of racism are silly. The only people practicing racism are soldiers using force against Palestinian civilians and taking their land for Israelis.
Allright. Just a question. Could you please tell me, what the two Palestinian teenagers are holding in the following photo?

Non-racist "peaceful" Palestinian protestors according to ISMer.

We need to go back to the bigger picture. The Israeli government is taking more Palestinian land by building the Wall on Palestinian land and not on the Green Line.

Noone is "taking" any Palestinian land. The land is not annexed, and the fence is not a political one. The fence's goal is to protect as many jews possible from Palestinian terrorists, and it's built based on security needs and not political border. The fence can be dismantled at any time, if Palestinians would actually do something to prevent such attacks from taking place. Currently? They don't.
The Palestinian private-owned land behind the fence is still theirs, and they can get access to it, via checkpoints and gates which exist in the fence itself.
No, Israeli soldiers have a choice. They can and should refuse to implement these illegal and immoral orders, and refuse to use violence against civilians who are simply defending their land with their bodies.

Some soldiers are refusing to serve (not enough), and I have met others at protests who say that they know that what they are doing is wrong, but they often say that they have no choice because they are "only implementing orders." This a sad defense.

I have the choice to refuse to morally wrong orders. Defending the construction of a fence that SAVES LIVES is the right thing to do. Stopping a violent mob of racists and terrorist lovers from reaching innocent construction workers, most of which are Israeli Arabs is the right thing to do. This land is not yours ISMer, the debate here is between Israelis and Palestinians, and you would be right to return to YOUR land in whatever spoiled-rich suburb you live. This isn't your fight, this isn't your cause. You're interfering with Palestinian life and inciting young Palestinians. You're getting them hurt, injured and killed. Stop it. Leave, and don't ever come back.


  • You kick ass, end.

    Well I do have a few other points, thanks for using some of my pics in the posts.

    Also in the one that you state 4 rock throwers, it's actually six.

    On the far left you see a purple blob (1), a red blob (2), the guy in the blue shirt (3), the guy with sling shot (4), a guy in the tan shirt just right of the sling shot guy (5), and the guy in the black shirt (6).

    The part where you right (and link to).

    And will you just look how young this guy looks. Right. It's all my imagination.

    Doesn't work (please fix it).

    The "nazimedia" link also doesn't work for me.

    But other than that Top notch piece. Keep up the good work, and I thank you and am very grateful for your service and sacrafice. Keep it up, and try to move yourself to the diplomatic corp. You have a lot talent when it comes to this, and are very Knowlegable (sp [oh whatever]).


    This is also a good pic

    By Anonymous Manker, at 6:17 PM, April 09, 2005  

  • Thanks for the photos manker, fixed the link to the "young" guy (the one who has a BEARD). The Nazimedia link works for me, so you should try it again.

    By Blogger OnlyInIsrael, at 6:27 PM, April 09, 2005  

  • Cool, ya everything works now, and I see you added the links.

    And no problem about those pics.

    I have a ton of pics where terrorists are surrounding themselves with little kids if you need that.

    I have to admit that "nazimedia" link made my jaw drop. If it wasn't for the fact that they blurred the faces I'd say those people are complete dumbasses.

    But other than great job, keep it up.

    Over and out.

    By Anonymous Manker, at 6:43 PM, April 09, 2005  

  • Good post..People like ismer I would like to ask the following..

    After WW2 the West Bank belonged to Jordan(Arab). If this was the Pals 'homeland' why did teir Arab brothers not give it to the Pals prior to the 67 or 73 wars? Answer; The Pals and other Arabs claimed that Israel's borders at the time was their homeland and wanted to 'push them into the sea', so the Pals we're 'refugees' all that time in Jordan. Once Israel took this land THEN the Pals claimed it and most Arab countries demanded it back..
    If the Pals don't want it all, everything, why was the West Bank not given to the Pals when Jordan had it.

    The Pals won't stop with the West Bank or any other territory..Politicaly the 'occupied territories'are just a good first step..I don't think Israel needs to withdraw from any position.

    Keep up the good work O.I.I.

    By Blogger Greenmiler, at 10:30 PM, April 09, 2005  

  • Great post..

    Which unit are you serving in? It sounds like you're in magav but I seem to remember reading in the archives that you were going into tothanim.

    By Anonymous Avi S, at 11:19 PM, April 09, 2005  

  • Hey man I've got another pic of "peace activists" really interfering.

    and that guy in your "typical protest I"

    Keeps on showing up.

    By Anonymous Manker, at 10:05 PM, April 13, 2005  

  • I do serve in the Artillery corps, but because of the nature of the conflict, this is what we do in our service, makes it more interesting in my opinion.

    By Blogger OnlyInIsrael, at 7:58 PM, April 15, 2005  

  • you officially are the coolest and best blogger
    out there.

    You win my support fully.

    Ill be in Israel starting in May, and leaving back to Phoenix in December.
    Can we find a time to get together and hang out?>
    Ill be doing Marva in september (Simulated IDF training
    on a gadna base).

    And then Ill be doing sar-el.

    Write me before I leave May 2nd and ill make sure to keep you updated
    with what im doing there. :D

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:09 AM, April 16, 2005  

  • shows how little I know about the army. I thought that only magav and infantry go on these sort of missions.

    Do you have to be in one of the elite artillery units (meitar?)

    I'm being recruited in 3 weeks, and have a gibush (paratroopers) in a few days, hence the curiosity..

    By Anonymous Avi S, at 9:44 PM, April 16, 2005  

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