Only In Israel

Saturday, May 06, 2006

A small victory.

Every independence day (and even beforehand, on memorial day) the press always goes to the ultra orthodox neighbourhoods to shoot some pictures of Israeli ultra orthodox Jews spitting in the face of the country. They either don't stand during the siren (which sounds every memorial day to mark the memory of the soldiers who died defending this country), or they just burn Israeli flags, and practice grieving customs (wearing sacks, tearing their clothes, displaying black flags) on Independence day.
Now the press always rushes to get the powerful images of Jews trashing Israel and burning Israeli flags. This is a regular ritual in Israel, getting annoyed at them for not standing during the siren and then a few days later for burning flags. I have to say, though, that in the recent years, but the number of such incidents (or maybe just the press coverage) fell seriously. I don't know why, but I imagine it would have a lot to do with the suicide bombings striking even in ultra-orthodox anti-Zionist neighbourhoods, and thus it may have hit them that they are part of this country as well.
It is important to emphasize that the people who act as they do are a fraction of the ultra orthodox society. It's a few small sects, like Neturei Karta or Satmer hassidim who actually do those things.
I realize this may seem illogical to an outsider, to understand how Jews who live in Israel, hate this country so much, but you honestly have to set them apart from most Jews. They aren't exactly representatives of Jewish life. These sects keep many dark-age customs Judaism has gotten rid off, and aren't in general a good example of Jews as a whole. I know the Jewhaters out there just love showing their pictures in anti-Israeli protests, but they should really think if they want to associate themselves with backward cults who alienate most western values.

Anyway, I wanted to share a thought I often have when looking at their protests and their hateful signs and gestures. The thing is, this community, which was never Zionist got in a huge rift with most Israelis. When Hebrew was revived in the beginning of the 20th century, they refused to use it (for those of you who don't know, Hebrew was largely a dead language, used only in the synagogues and never in everyday life) . They called it blasphemy, and suggest that Hebrew should be kept to the synagogues and the everyday language should be Yiddish. The war on the language was bad. They burned Hebrew signs, refused to use Hebrew in their daily life, and taught their kids nothing but Yiddish.
And now, 100 years later, they bash my country and its founders with the language they refused to revive and use. They bash Zionism with the language Zionists made part of their ideology. And everytime one of them lifts one of those hateful signs, you should always remember, that's it's yet another small victory.

27 Comments:

  • Welcome back soldier/blogger. I'd suggest you should confront this Jerusalem Post article, as I posted earlier today. It's not too late to refuse to support Israeli war crimes:

    Well soldier/blogger, you are indeed on shaky ground when the right-wing Jerusalem Post criticizes the Israeli military and police's handling of anti-Wall protests in Bil'in, Budrus and other places. Read this long, detailed article:

    Getting Carried Away, LARRY DERFNER
    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1145961277201&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

    It pretty much tells it like it is.

    ISMer

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:15 AM, May 07, 2006  

  • Jews who despise Israel are nothing new. After all, there's always ISMer's hero, Adam Shapiro...and Universities throughout the world. And anti-semitic organizations using exceptions like this to prove their own twisted rule is also nothing new.

    By Blogger Jason Lomberg, at 9:19 PM, May 07, 2006  

  • Hi Jason,

    Let's acknowledge first that you didn't know that Benjamin Netanyahu was Likud's leader in the last elections.

    Let's next acknowledge that you clearly do not know that The Jerusalem Post is a right-wing Israeli newspaper, and that Larry Derfner is a regular columnist for that right-wing Israeli newspaper.

    Let's now ask, are you accusing Larry Derfner of The Jerusalem Post of being a Jew who despises Israel?

    And what is the exception you are talking about?

    You are commenting on issues that you don't really know much about. Nice try.

    ISMer

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:50 AM, May 08, 2006  

  • ISMer,
    Talk about an inflated sense of self-importance. I wasn't even talking about you, or your linked article. The exception I'm talking about is of the Jew, in this case the Ultra-Orthodox sect, who despises Israel and Zionists. Sorry, ISMer, but the world doesn't revolve around you.

    F.Y.I. I did know that Bibi was Likud, but I did not see his campaign video mentioned in the post.

    By Blogger Jason Lomberg, at 1:55 AM, May 08, 2006  

  • Betcha ISMer is a self-hating Jew, too. Any takers?

    By Blogger immasarah, at 6:07 AM, May 09, 2006  

  • Hey!
    I found you on Milblogs.

    I know what you mean.
    I'm in the US Air Force and I'm always hearing in the news about people protesting whatever over here too.
    I think its' sad that these people do things like this.

    By Blogger TheEarthCanBeMoved, at 7:50 PM, May 09, 2006  

  • Jason your first comment was so vague, it invited misinterpretation.

    immasarah, it seems to be you would be referring to Jewish ISMer, who also posts on this site.

    Glad we have more soldiers posting on the site. I'd be interested to know if theearthcanbemoved thinks the US war in Iraq was a good idea? To me it looks like military occupation in Iraq, Palestine or anywhere for that matter is a failed strategy.

    ISMer

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:10 PM, May 09, 2006  

  • ISMer,
    I won't get into military "occupation" of Palestine, since your ilk considers the whole of Israel "occupied territory." And I'm not theearthcanbemoved, but I am a squiddy, so I'll take a shot at your Q. Yes, the Iraq War is going well, and significant progress is being made. Recently, deployment of the 2nd brigade of the 1st Infantry Division, 3,500 strong, was delayed. According to Stars & Stripes, "The delay will give the Pentagon time to monitor progress by the fledgling Iraqi government and its security forces, and decide whether more troops are needed."

    The Pentagon released a carefully worded statement which read: "This is a very narrow decision to hold one brigade from deploying and to give the commanders on the ground additional time to continue their assessments." But the implication is clear. Says Dan Goure, a military analyst with the Virginia-based Lexington Institute, "What we have is the beginning of the process (of withdrawal) without the process having been announced. What you're seeing here is an attempt to keep expectations low."

    This, along with the much-touted "Civil War" being over before it started, creates a very favorable long term outlook for Iraq.

    Sorry for hijacking your blog, IDF Soldier.

    By Blogger Jason Lomberg, at 1:29 AM, May 10, 2006  

  • Hi Jason,

    Well, so much for any shred of credibility you may have been clinging to.

    The Iraq war is going well and significant progress is being made?

    Jason, you just proved that you are truly living on another planet.

    You've actually even damaged the credibility of the soldier/blogger, hard as that may be to do, by showing that on issues other than Israel/Palestine the type of people who support the soldier/blogger are also completely disconnected from reality.

    ISMer

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:15 AM, May 10, 2006  

  • ISMer, why don't you just stick to one thread? There's really no reason to respond to every new post with subjects that are irrelevant. I mean you do it every time a new post comes up. Admit it: You like the attention.

    By Blogger Nemesis6, at 9:59 AM, May 10, 2006  

  • Hi Nemesis,

    Thanks for the attenion.

    Why don't you tell us your views on the Iraq war? Similar to Jason, different?

    ISMer

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:46 PM, May 10, 2006  

  • ISMer,
    Thanks for the well-reasoned response. This is standard operating procedure for the far-left- if you can't debate the topic, attack the person. Well, you haven't disappointed. If you would like to say I've "lost all credibility" and make other fantastic claims, please explain why my statement isn't true. Operation Iraqi Freedom was a "quagmire" in the eyes of the media before it began. The MSM follows the standard "If it bleeds, it leads," ignoring all the positive work being done in Iraq. As a Captain said to Matt Laurer, "If I got my news from the newspapers, I'd be pretty depressed as well."

    By Blogger Jason Lomberg, at 6:48 PM, May 10, 2006  

  • Larry Derfner, was a far leftist when he wrote for Jewish papers here in the USA and still is, now that he's moved to Israel. The Jerusalem Post has several left wing columnists and under the new editor they are getting more space, including a woman, who was a knesset member for the far left Meretz party. The far left Ha'aretz also has a few token right wing columnists who write occasionaly such as Moshe Arens and Israel Harel. You see Israel, in contrast to the Arab totalitarian states, is a democracy, where all opinions are expressed openly.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:12 AM, May 15, 2006  

  • Let's see, Israel is a democracy where:

    -Palestinian citizens cannot marry spouses from the Occupied Territories and bring them to become citizens,
    -Palestinian citizens cannot live in many communities,
    -Palestinian citizens receive a fraction of the services that Jewish citizens receive,
    -Bedouins' homes are regularly bulldozed,
    -A leading politician, Avigdor Lieberman, calls for the execution of Palestinian members of the Knesset, and Yisrael Beitenu seeks to strip the citizenship of Palestinian citizens,
    -Palestinians are regularly called a "demographic threat"
    -Politicians seek a "Jewish majority" in the Knesset,
    -62 percent of Israelis support government-backed Arab emigration,
    -"Only 22 percent trust the parties, compared with the 33 percent that place their trust in the Knesset, 44 that trust the media, 68 percent that trust the supreme court and 79 percent the trust the IDF."
    -Etc., etc.

    Sounds very democractic to me.

    ISMer

    Sounds

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:50 PM, May 16, 2006  

  • Ah yes everytime ISMer writes I truly believe G-D puts stupid people on earth to entertain me

    -Palestinian citizens cannot marry spouses from the Occupied Territories and bring them to become citizens,

    You mean a country restricting who can live there! You mean the fact that if I were to marry someone from one country that does not have diplomatic relations with one another you can't bring them in? It's not like if an Azeri man were to marry an armenian woman, they could live in Azerbaijan. Or the despotship of australia for not allowing just anyone into the country but having to go through the point system...

    Etc. Again with the double standard

    -Palestinian citizens cannot live in many communities,

    Which Israeli law states SPECIFICALLY THAT ISRAELI ARABS CANNOT LIVE ANYWHERE THEY WANT.

    -Palestinian citizens receive a fraction of the services that Jewish citizens receive,

    You mean the the fact that this injustice (yes it is wrong no matter what anyone says) is being constantly looked at being resolved.

    Or would you like to discuss how arab Israeli citizens don't stand for the national anthem, don't try to be citizens and consider themselves seperate?

    -A leading politician, Avigdor Lieberman, calls for the execution of Palestinian members of the Knesset, and Yisrael Beitenu seeks to strip the citizenship of Palestinian citizens,

    You mean how after those ARAB KNESSET MEMBERS WENT TO SHOW SOLIDARITY AND VISITED HAMAS MEMBERS WHO ARE SWORN TO ISRAEL'S DESTRUCTION, WHICH IN ANY OTHER COUNTRY WOULD HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED FULL TREASION, AND ENOUGH FOR A VERY LONG JAIL TERM ofcourse I wonder why he said that?

    Or how about the way MK barakeh goes to beirut all the time and calls for it's destruction? I guess thats ok, right?

    -Palestinians are regularly called a "demographic threat"

    Because as arafat once said,"the palestinian womb will be our greatest weapon".

    -Politicians seek a "Jewish majority" in the Knesset,

    Even though this knesset has seen the most arab mks being placed in high positions in a long time to ensure the 'convergence plan'?

    Or the fact that in reality arab mks represent only about 12 seats in the knesset? I don't know where you got this one, but I'd like a source

    -62 percent of Israelis support government-backed Arab emigration,

    Well again, when you fly the flags of hamas and support the enemy you cannot ask to viewed as just another Israeli.

    -"Only 22 percent trust the parties, compared with the 33 percent that place their trust in the Knesset, 44 that trust the media, 68 percent that trust the supreme court and 79 percent the trust the IDF."

    You mean that people don't trust politicians?!?! OMG!!!! I can't believe it. Or the fact that the army is basically made up of Israel's children, I wonder why people would trust there children before politicians?


    Sounds very democractic to me.

    You sound like the usual anti-semite to me, but hey thats REALLY nothing new.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:04 PM, May 17, 2006  

  • Dear Anonymous Friend,

    Can you point out specifically what was anti-semitic? Please cite examples.

    With regards, to your actual questions, of which there were few.

    1) "Palestinian citizens cannot live in many communities"

    OK, I will concede that this would have been more accurately stated as "Palestinian citizens cannot own land in many places."

    "Israeli governments reserved 93% of the land - often expropriated from Arabs without compensation - for Jews through state ownership, the Jewish National Fund and the Israeli Lands Authority."
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1703245,00.html

    Don't just start saying this is from the Guardian, because I can find the same quote from multiple sources. Deal with the factual assertion. Do you claim that it is not true?


    2) "Politicians seek a "Jewish majority" in the Knesset"

    If you are Israeli, I have trouble believing you need evidence for this. But in case you are some outside observer who is unfamiliar with the situation...

    There are multiple examples where it has been asserted and then actually implemented. Right now Israelis are discussing whether Olmert needs a Jewish majority in the Knesset to implement his convergence plan. This was also the case with Oslo, with West Bank redeployments, etc.. This is simply part of the political discourse in Israel.


    3) Yes, I find that the fact that Israelis have far more faith in their army than any other element of their society, including all parts of the political system, extremely frightening. When people in "democracy" believe in their military more than any other institution, I'm worried.

    4) Ha'aretz pointed out the other day that Israel stands alone as the only "developed country" that has such laws forbidding the naturalization of spouses of a specific ethnicity.

    ISMer

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:05 PM, May 17, 2006  

  • Can you point out specifically what was anti-semitic? Please cite examples.

    The fact that you hold Jews to one standard and everyone else to another

    Don't just start saying this is from the Guardian, because I can find the same quote from multiple sources. Deal with the factual assertion. Do you claim that it is not true?

    So please SHOW IT

    There are multiple examples where it has been asserted and then actually implemented. Right now Israelis are discussing whether Olmert needs a Jewish majority in the Knesset to implement his convergence plan. This was also the case with Oslo, with West Bank redeployments, etc.. This is simply part of the political discourse in Israel.

    What are these examples? You are not right because you SAY SO, again with the third grader arguement.


    4) Ha'aretz pointed out the other day that Israel stands alone as the only "developed country" that has such laws forbidding the naturalization of spouses of a specific ethnicity.


    Huh? You are kidding right? Every freaken country has the right to deny entry of those into the country it does not wish. Much like if you were to marry someone on the terror watch lists, your spouse, regardless of your american citizenship would not be allowed in.

    It's also the same way that regardless of who you are married to you cannot enter a country unless you have a citizenship that is recognized by that country.

    It would be the same if a malayasian man married and Israeli woman, he could not bring her in because they do not recognize Israel.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:10 PM, May 17, 2006  

  • Dear Friend,

    Judging from your responses, which actually included no substance or factual information, I would guess you are not Israeli and actually don't follow Israeli politics closely.

    For your information, I already provided a Guardian quote on land ownership in Israel. You don't seem to have understood that.

    You don't seem to be aware of the "Jewish majority" discussion that comes up continually in Israeli politics.

    Regarding the marriage law, here is Ha'aretz:

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/715825.html
    There is no country in the Western world that does not limit immigration and set priorities in accordance with its needs at a given time. Immigration laws make it difficult for foreign partners of citizens to receive citizenship, and they combat fictitious marriages. But not one single Western country discriminates against some of its citizens by passing laws that apply only to them, and that impose limits only on their choice of a partner with whom they can live in their homeland.

    My sense is you don't know enough to actually use facts to support your arguments.

    ISMer

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:28 PM, May 17, 2006  

  • Judging from your responses, which actually included no substance or factual information,

    It actually did, but like as I assume you have no education so you can't even spot the obvious.

    I would guess you are not Israeli and actually don't follow Israeli politics closely.

    Lakak et ha'zion shelli

    For your information, I already provided a Guardian quote on land ownership in Israel. You don't seem to have understood that.

    Alright, lets look at you said previously,

    Don't just start saying this is from the Guardian, because I can find the same quote from multiple sources.

    So if you have so many sources on this why don't you them? Please, I thought you had an entirely library on this instead of just one very biased source.

    Why are you back tracking?

    Well instead of just going back and forth, it's quite simply the fact that you didn't and in your smuggness you thought I wouldn't call your bluff.

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/715825.html

    This is an editorial, AN OPINION PIECE STUPID.


    There is no country in the Western world that does not limit immigration and set priorities in accordance with its needs at a given time.

    Thank you for admitting I am right

    Immigration laws make it difficult for foreign partners of citizens to receive citizenship, and they combat fictitious marriages.

    Which is usually the case with these marriages because they are used quite often to import terrorists.

    But not one single Western country discriminates against some of its citizens by passing laws that apply only to them, and that impose limits only on their choice of a partner with whom they can live in their homeland.

    Again with the lies, this rule applies to ALL CITIZENS. It doesn't matter WHO YOU ARE, you cannot bring palestinians you marry into Israel, because Israel does not have diplomatic recognition. It would be the same if Israeli Jew were to marry a Saudi woman, NEITHER OF THEM COULD LIVE in one or the other country.

    This isn't a law agaisnt one group, this a law agaisnt bringing in people from an enemy state.

    My sense is you don't know enough to actually use facts to support your arguments.

    Dear G-D, just a personal question do you even have a college degree or did you just drop out when you realized that proffessors just swallow this much bullshit and falsity.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:41 AM, May 18, 2006  

  • Dear Friend,

    A few points here, I'm not obligated to do websearches for you at a snap of your fingers, especially since you actually provide no support for anything you say. My Guardian quote will suffice.

    Regarding Israel's citizenship laws, a few quick points.

    a) 20% of Israel's citiens are Palestinian. Many have family relations that live kilometers away in the Occupied Territories, some of whmo are from towns and villages that were once in what is now Israel. So "bringing Palestinians into Israel" is a bit of a misrepresentation. They are already there, and they were there before you were, I would imagine.

    b) Nonetheless, the parallel you chose to make between Israel and Saudi Arabia is telling. Saudi Arabia is not exactly a tolerant society. Unfortunately, as you note, Israel has ratified a similarly intolerant law for non-Jews.

    You were forced to mention Saudi Arabia because you were unable to find any country in the West, as Ha'aretz noted, that supports discrimination in marriage laws against people of a certain nationality or ethnicity in the way that Israel does.

    So, there we have it, apparently from an Israeli. Some Israelis are satisfied to compare themselves with Saudi Arabia in terms of laws and rights.

    Was that "democratic Saudi Arabia", the only other democracy in the Middle East?

    ISMer

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:40 PM, May 19, 2006  

  • A few points here, I'm not obligated to do websearches for you at a snap of your fingers, especially since you actually provide no support for anything you say.

    Once again

    Don't just start saying this is from the Guardian, because I can find the same quote from multiple sources.

    Who wrote this? ah yes it was you! You made a big shtick that you had plenty of sources, so please show us. I WANT TO SEE THEM, you have constantly shown yourself as a deceptive person.

    It's YOUR responsibility to prove it to me and everyone else. Or else your just doing what we all know already, just trying to convince yourself.

    My Guardian quote will suffice.

    Actually it doesn't. I LOVE THIS QUOTE

    Don't just start saying this is from the Guardian, because I can find the same quote from multiple sources.

    Why did you offer to show multiple sources if the guardian is so trustworthy? Why is it needed to be shown from "multiple sources" if it's so 'trustable'.

    Its for two reasons

    1. It's not a trustworthy source

    2. You tried to BS us all and have failed miserably. And now are reverting your two favorite tactics.

    You indignant self rightousness which is proved by your third grader argument that you are always right.

    To make it simple for the lurkers, TSMer is right because he says he is right, therefore he must be. It's the cyclic stupidity.

    20% of Israel's citiens are Palestinian. Many have family relations that live kilometers away in the Occupied Territories, some of whmo are from towns and villages that were once in what is now Israel. So "bringing Palestinians into Israel" is a bit of a misrepresentation. They are already there, and they were there before you were, I would imagine.

    And your point? It doesn't matter, the ones that live in Judea and Samaria DO NOT HAVE CITIZENSHIP. The ONES in Israel DO.

    You cannot just start bringing in people into the country, especially when FAR TOO MANY HAVE BEEN CAUGHT INVOLVED IN TERROR ACTIVITIES. And it seems strange that terror leaders or people part of terror groups always try to marry Israeli women.

    Nonetheless, the parallel you chose to make between Israel and Saudi Arabia is telling. Saudi Arabia is not exactly a tolerant society. Unfortunately, as you note, Israel has ratified a similarly intolerant law for non-Jews.

    You need to learn how to read, I'M NOT MAKING A PARALLEL OR COMPARISON. I'm pointing out a FACT.

    Much like the way I pointed out the fact of marriage and how if one country DOES NOT RECOGNIZE THE CITIZENSHIP OF THE SPOUSE THEY CANNOT MOVE INTO THAT COUNTRY

    I hope that being written in huge bold letters will help you to understand that concept.

    You were forced to mention Saudi Arabia because you were unable to find any country in the West, as Ha'aretz noted, that supports discrimination in marriage laws against people of a certain nationality or ethnicity in the way that Israel does.

    WOW you can't read aswell. Let me quote myself

    You mean the fact that if I were to marry someone from one country that does not have diplomatic relations with one another you can't bring them in? It's not like if an Azeri man were to marry an armenian woman, they could live in Azerbaijan. Or the despotship of australia for not allowing just anyone into the country but having to go through the point system...

    and

    It would be the same if a malayasian man married and Israeli woman, he could not bring her in because they do not recognize Israel.

    and

    Much like if you were to marry someone on the terror watch lists, your spouse, regardless of your american citizenship would not be allowed in.

    I have used multiple examples of different nations. If you want you go and look at the previous posts. You seem to be very good at reading WHAT YOU WANT instead of WHAT IS WRITTEN THERE.

    So, there we have it, apparently from an Israeli. Some Israelis are satisfied to compare themselves with Saudi Arabia in terms of laws and rights.

    Actually I've compared this issue with malasia, US, Azerbaijan, Armenia, and then KSA.

    You seem to be unable to read, and have only picked on the saudi example in hopes that I will ignore the major issue of 1. you not showing more sources and 2. you trying to aviod the fact that I just handed your ass in this arguement.

    Anyways the main reason why I thought of saudi arabia (and didn't mention any of the other nations that don't recognize Israel or each other), is because as you say it's an intolerant racists society.

    So well like any normal person on this blog, I thought of you ;)

    Was that "democratic Saudi Arabia", the only other democracy in the Middle East?

    By the ISM's standard YES.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:09 PM, May 24, 2006  

  • May the ISMer die in pain and suffering from AIDS, cancer or any other devastating disease on the graves of his children or the younger family members!

    Amen!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:15 PM, May 26, 2006  

  • Why do the people communicate with trash like the local resident of this site, ISMer, a product of the likes of Larry Mosqueda, an anti-American, anti-Israel garbage instructor who happens to spread his bacterial infection from the safety of the Evergreen College of Olympia, Washington? What is the purpose of proving to the ISMer that if the Jews had treated the non-Jews 10 times worse than the non-Jews treated the Jews there would have been 250 million Jews alive today? The ISMer does not understand such concepts. The ISMer will never understand that the Arabs with their culture and identity based on the Palestinian make-belief have taken upon themselves/or been assigned by the 22 tyrannical Arab regimes to dislodge the Jewish sovereignty via the boycotts, serial murders, shady alliances and all kinds of warfare to either kick the Jews out, instill fear into them or force them to work for the Arabs while the Arabs will play backgammon, drink tea, socialize, multiply and get the welfare checks. What are you trying to prove to the anti-Semitic viruses? They are vile. They carry infection in their blood and the only thing that bothers them is that the Jews are finally defending themselves. They loved the Jews a lot better when they obediently marched into the gas chambers. It does not matter if the ISMer if Jewish or not. Unfortunately, we have always had those who went against the Jewish majority. The world loves the Jews who hate other Jews. That is their way to stardom. History has known a lot of them. Let them die in the gutters with their faces down. As for the ISMer, please ignore the rubbish. He is a human waste.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:45 PM, May 26, 2006  

  • Would anyone disagree that the last two posters can best be described as: "violent and hateful"?

    Has anyone ever heard of Larry Mosqueda, or know why the last poster is seemingly obsessed with him?

    ISMer

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:40 PM, May 27, 2006  

  • Would anyone disagree that the last two posters can best be described as: "violent and hateful"?

    I'd go and say that fits the description of the last THREE posters.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:07 PM, May 27, 2006  

  • Wow, there's a lot to comment on. I'll go one by one.

    ISMer, regarding the Jpost article, I'll have to read to comment on it, so you'll have to wait a bit till I have the time. You've harassed this blog long enough to know I don't usually leave you without comment, so you'll just have to wait.
    regarding the people you've called "Palestinian citizens". There are no Palestinian citizens of Israel. There are "Israeli Arabs", and I would like you to refer correctly to the people you suggest you know so much about.
    -Palestinian citizens cannot marry spouses from the Occupied Territories and bring them to become citizens,
    They can marry whomever they want, that doesn't mean their spouses get automatic citizens. It's the right of Israel's parliament to shape its immigration laws as it sees fit. Just like Israel doesn't intervene in European immigration policy (which recently has been shooting inflitrators on sight in melilla, and herding immigrants into mass concentration camps with poor sanitation and lack of food), I don't think you have any right to lecture Israeli citizens and their elected lawmakers, which laws to make. If the Israeli people decide to change the law, they'll vote against the people who made it.
    -Palestinian citizens cannot live in many communities,
    Wrong. Israeli arabs can live wherever they choose, and the supreme court has upheld that right when it was challanged.

    -Palestinian citizens receive a fraction of the services that Jewish citizens receive,
    Name one. Name one thing that I as an Israeli Jew get, and Israeli arabs don't. Try it.

    -Bedouins' homes are regularly bulldozed,
    Do you even listen to yourself? The Beduins are nomads. They don't have permanent homes, they have tents and huts, which they occasionally build on state owned territory. The state of Israel has gone to tremendous lengths to settle the Beduins in permanent housing, providing them with virtually free housing. The only Beduin towns exist in Israel and it's the only country in the world which has formed towns for beduins.

    -A leading politician, Avigdor Lieberman, calls for the execution of Palestinian members of the Knesset, and Yisrael Beitenu seeks to strip the citizenship of Palestinian citizens,
    First of all I want to make it clear my resentment of Lieberman's opinions (which aren't those you listed). He is a semi-fascist and does not understand the way a democracy works. However, Israel Beytenu seeks a population exchange solution with the Palestinians. In which noone will have to be moved out of his house.
    Lieberman DID NOT call for the execution of Israeli Arab parliament members, he said he supports execution of people who negotiate with terrorists, apparently you seem to think that applies to the Israeli Arab Parliament members (and to atleast some of them I agree).

    -Palestinians are regularly called a "demographic threat"
    By whom? the government? no they aren't. Political parties? sometimes. That's the nature of free speech. You don't always hear what you like.

    -Politicians seek a "Jewish majority" in the Knesset,
    There's no political necessity in Jewish Majority in the Knesset. The "Jewish Majority" claim was a pathetic argument attempt by some extremist rightist groups against the Oslo agreement, it didn't hold then and it is now over 15 years old. To call it an approach would be a lie.

    -62 percent of Israelis support government-backed Arab emigration,
    So? No force, No discrimination, merely government incentives for Arab emmigration. I see nothing wrong with that as long as it isn't forced or coerced in any way

    -"Only 22 percent trust the parties, compared with the 33 percent that place their trust in the Knesset, 44 that trust the media, 68 percent that trust the supreme court and 79 percent the trust the IDF."
    No... people don't trust politicians? You're kidding! really?
    People would rather trust the courts which aren't political and the army in which all their children serve in? Who would have thought?
    You have to be really thick, to suggest this supports anything but the Israeli democracy.
    Regarding the continuation of that debate, I have to note a few things.
    1. that guardian article is a complete lie. the JNF lands are 17% out of the 93% which are owned by Israel's State Land authority. the JNF lands are used for reforestation, not for building towns, and again, even so, the supreme court has upheld the right of Israeli arabs to live on those lands.
    2.You've suggested that Israel has a law barring an ethnicity from becoming naturalized. That's a lie. It's a law preventing citizens of an authority of becoming nationalized. It's not done to ALL arabs, only those who live in countries who are in a state of war with Israel. There's no law preventing Jordanians and Egyptians from becomiong naturalized Israeli citizens.

    To thearthcanbemoved. Thank you for your service to your country. I can't imagine what you must feel like, because even with the few Israelis who resent the army, I have the feeling, that there are more Americans who don't appreciate the service you do for them. Maybe it's just a media inflated notion, and maybe not. Anyway, I find it encouraging that even though you didn't have to join the army, you did. And I honestly hope, that if I had the same choice I'd do the same.

    To the people who implied the Jerusalem Post is leftist in anyway, I'll have to say I disagree. It has s a right-centrist view, but I'll have to say it's less rightist than Ha'aretz is leftist.

    And to the anonymous poster wishing AIDS on ISMer, I'll repeat. This is not our way, We're ABOVE this. Keep your debate to a higher standarts than the lies ISMer spews.
    I'll leave those comments out there, because I support free speech, but I strongly reject those comments. It's enough for hatered to be spread by ISMer, we don't need this crap from our side.

    And lest I forget. to Jason, Nemesis and anyone else I missed who countered ISMers lies, Thank you. Nice going.

    By Blogger OnlyInIsrael, at 9:08 PM, May 30, 2006  

  • The problem with Jews is that we think the ISMer or the rest of them understand our language of tolerance, ethics and morality. THEY DO NOT! You are wasting your precious time on the creep who comes from a record stained with Jewish blood. If it is not him then it is his ancestors in England, Shmorocco, Poland, Germany or Austria. Anti-Semitism is in his genes. He is infected and there is no cure for his condition. His love for the Arabs claiming to be Siberian, Appalachian, Gobian, Saharan or Palestinian is just his anti-Semitic manifestation.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:33 PM, June 02, 2006  

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